| Changeset | No. | Date | Contributor | Comment |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 51199623 by Jay May | 1 | 2018-04-26 01:27:10 UTC | Yury Yatsynovich | Why have you elevated the local road H2126 from tertiary to primary? If this has been done for navigation purposes then the preferable way is by using tags surface, max_speed, hgv=no and so on. Usually, roads of "Н"-class in Belarus are classified as tertiary, while "Р"-class a... |
| 2 | 2018-04-26 08:27:59 UTC | Jay May | Hi. I made this change a long, long time ago, and yes. It is for navigational purposes. Why? Because no matter what max_speed, hgv etc.you mark, openstreetmap and OSM-based apps like maps.me always choose the "superior" road, right through the city center. There are lots of similar cases i... | |
| 51206142 by Jay May | 1 | 2018-02-23 16:39:22 UTC | Yury Yatsynovich | Остановка "Ледовый дворец" явно не на своем месте. |
| 2 | 2018-02-23 16:39:49 UTC | Yury Yatsynovich | Я про вот эту точку: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1674193920 | |
| 3 | 2018-02-23 20:43:55 UTC | Jay May | Хммм ... Не помню что-бы я когда-то трогал остановки в Молодечне ... тогда даже не понимаю об чём вы говорите :) | |
| 4 | 2018-02-23 21:02:58 UTC | Yury Yatsynovich | Да, странно: история правок говорит, что эта точка была смещена именно в результате ваших правок 6 месяцев тому, до этого она находилась на правильном месте...Кроме ... | |
| 5 | 2018-02-23 21:50:36 UTC | Jay May | ??? Я даже не знал, что такой тэг вообще есть! ... ну, странно, странно... | |
| 54478664 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-12-09 09:03:20 UTC | Tomas Straupis | You've made changes to some tags, but not all. Now references to cultural heritage are wrong, as well as attraction tags ar wrong. |
| 2 | 2017-12-09 09:09:24 UTC | Tomas Straupis | To be more clear. Event (baptising) is not a physical object. Physical objects are: church and complex of buildings. Only physical objects are mapped.Tourism guide could have info, that Pilsudsky was baptised in Church X, then you look up Church X to find the place. | |
| 3 | 2017-12-09 11:24:45 UTC | Jay May | O kur čia apie tai rašyti? | |
| 4 | 2017-12-09 11:32:00 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Apie tai, kad šioje bažnyčioje buvo krikštytas Pilsudskis, galima rašyti į description ar description:pl žymą. | |
| 5 | 2017-12-10 17:52:35 UTC | Jay May | Done. Patikrink jei viskas tvarkoj, ypač lietuviškai. | |
| 6 | 2017-12-10 18:12:10 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Patikrinau, viskas tvarkoj (pataisiau nedidelę lt klaidelę). | |
| 54082936 by Расслабон | 1 | 2017-11-28 12:44:09 UTC | Jay May | STOP CHANGING BORDER CHECKPOINTS! You are bringing confusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 53763816 by borism346 | 1 | 2017-11-14 19:21:29 UTC | Jay May | Please rollback how this border checkpoint used to look |
| 53736133 by borism346 | 1 | 2017-11-14 19:20:54 UTC | Jay May | Please rollback how this border checkpoint used to look. |
| 53678939 by Расслабон | 1 | 2017-11-14 19:20:28 UTC | Jay May | Please rollback how this border checkpoint used to look. |
| 53636194 by borism346 | 1 | 2017-11-10 07:36:28 UTC | Jay May | Hello. May I know why you changed this border checkpoint? |
| 53636395 by borism346 | 1 | 2017-11-10 07:33:51 UTC | Jay May | Hello. May I know why you reverted my changes on the Brest and Terespol border checkpoints? |
| 51731662 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-11-09 08:12:26 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | обьяснить почему удаление КПП Возможно название неверное но что то же здесь есть |
| 2 | 2017-11-09 08:27:16 UTC | Jay May | Не уверен, что понял вопрось. Я не удалил никакого КПП. Это было 2 месяцёв назад, и так что я помню там была другая категория. Теперь там как надо - barrier:border control | |
| 3 | 2017-11-09 16:38:56 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | полигон amenity=customs был удален Анализатолр правок показал четко | |
| 4 | 2017-11-09 16:40:51 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | и где это написано что вместо полигона пункт пропуска надо подписывать автобан ? на несколько километров | |
| 5 | 2017-11-09 17:05:22 UTC | Jay May | Customs = таможня. А там нету таможников, только пограничники. Поэтому правильно (и сразу видно на каждым OSM-gps ) barrier:border control. Там нету автобана. Это дорога в терене пункт... | |
| 52566221 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-10-02 17:25:24 UTC | yaugenka | Jay May, my changes did not delete the previous data, whereas your reverting messed everthing up! There are now duplicate data. If you are doing reverting, do it wisely! |
| 2 | 2017-10-02 17:51:43 UTC | yaugenka | I do not mind if you put the previous "name:* values but please be kind to correct the mess and restore the new values I added. | |
| 3 | 2017-10-03 16:48:12 UTC | Jay May | The values you added were wrong. The only thing called „Hudahaj” is the train station. Those villages are called „Stancyja Hudahaj” and „Maly Hudahaj” respectively. Why should I restore wrong data if I’ve been there a couple of times, the latest of which was... | |
| 4 | 2017-10-03 17:33:39 UTC | yaugenka | Read this document from the district's government website:http://ostrovets.grodno-region.by/uploads/files/000225_408421__selskij_ispolnitelnyj_komitet.docI moved the values from "name" tags into "alt_name" tags and put names from the document into the "name" tags.... | |
| 5 | 2017-10-04 09:10:07 UTC | Jay May | Your threat of reporting the above to the DWG is absolutely ridiculous given the fact you are the one who has been reverting my changes without/before even asking why I made them, and thus you brought more confusion. Your behavior is contrary to the good practice of OSM, which pretty much puts your ... | |
| 6 | 2017-10-04 12:41:55 UTC | SomeoneElse | Er - I'm confused...That document appears to be a document in Russian listing some village and settlement names in Russian. It merely confirms that these places have Russian names (which no-one disagrees with) as well as Belarusian names (which in this region I'm sure no-one disagrees with either... | |
| 7 | 2017-10-04 17:51:28 UTC | yaugenka | @SomeoneElse, that is exactly the case which we were explaning to everyone in defence of Russian names in the "name" tags - almost all offical documents and maps are in Russian language.This document is on the govenment website, govenment exacutive authority of the Ostivetskiy disctrict ... | |
| 8 | 2017-10-04 18:57:00 UTC | SomeoneElse | @yaugenka As I said, no one doubts that these places have BE and RU names. What I was asking about was your change of e.g. http://osm.mapki.com/history/node.php?id=1286803731 to lose the "Станция" part of the name (regardless of language). Separately to that, from looking at htt... | |
| 9 | 2017-10-04 19:33:21 UTC | yaugenka | @SomeoneElse, I'm not argueing about the use of the languigies right now. I just explained that regardless of that the document is in Russian it is an official one.The official name of the both settlesments is "Гудогай" without the "Малый" and "Станция&q... | |
| 10 | 2017-10-04 20:02:57 UTC | SomeoneElse | It's perfectly possible for 2 settlements (with different names) to be part of one larger admin area - I live in a place exactly like that myself. | |
| 11 | 2017-10-04 20:15:29 UTC | SomeoneElse | Also - on the "official languages" point, there are many places in OSM where the "official" language isn't the one used by people and on signs locally, and as per http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf it's the language used by people and o... | |
| 12 | 2017-10-04 20:41:06 UTC | yaugenka | Sorry, I do not quite understand why we are discussing the use of language here. How is it related to the difference between "Станция Гудогай" and "Гудогай". | |
| 13 | 2017-10-04 21:07:25 UTC | yaugenka | You can also look up the names in the official registry of settlements at http://maps.by/searchateHere is a screenshot from therehttps://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/2866539/17f558f07c38fa35fd106b9e0650c342 | |
| 14 | 2017-10-04 21:22:17 UTC | yaugenka | If we talk just about the use of these names, then try to search for "Станция Гудогай" or "Малый Гудогай" on the web and you will get "п. Гудогай" and "д. Гудогай" instead, like on this wiki pagehttps://ru.wikipedia.... | |
| 15 | 2017-10-05 11:16:56 UTC | Jay May | If the values are wrong, I still don't see what I should keep them as they were. I've corrected many mistakes on OSM where the ending was not the proper one or the name was wrong (just as in this case). I haven't seen districts of one locality signed whatsoever. For instance, Bialkiški use... | |
| 16 | 2017-10-05 17:31:44 UTC | yaugenka | I'm greatfull for your contributions but mapping settlements from signs is not enough. The reality is constantly changing. Some settlements get annexed by larger ones or become independent or are renamed or cease to exist at all. And road signs are always going behind these changes.For example, Bi... | |
| 17 | 2017-10-05 18:23:12 UTC | SomeoneElse | > So one must always double check it > with the official registry.I can't comment about Belarus directly but "What people refer to a place and how they classify it" and "how something is treated officially" are often very different in OSM. In most places the former get... | |
| 18 | 2017-10-05 19:13:21 UTC | yaugenka | There is not a single settlement with "admin" tag in Belarus. All settlements are mapped with "place" tag and correspond to official registry. The prority of mapping for us is actually the law, then the registry and then the signs. Because first comes an official act (e.g. about ... | |
| 19 | 2017-10-06 06:24:36 UTC | Jay May | Bialkiški was marked as a neighborhood by myself :)There is one thing I noticed in Belarus (very similar to Lithuania and to Ireland): ZIP codes seem not to be used ... Maybe it would be good to find them and map them? | |
| 20 | 2017-10-06 07:42:37 UTC | yaugenka | Bialkiški was marked as a neighborhood by myself :) xm.. the history says it differenthttp://osm.mapki.com/history/relation.php?id=6910214http://osm.mapki.com/history/node.php?id=242995527 | |
| 21 | 2017-10-06 08:19:14 UTC | Jay May | Ah, rightttt. Looks like this Georgij also knows about this.However, I am the one who created the relation between Bialkiški and Astraviec. You are welcome to have a look if I did it the right way. | |
| 22 | 2017-10-06 16:22:39 UTC | yaugenka | Not quite. It would be correct if the area of Bialkiški was outside Astraviec. Astraviec would then consist of two separate polygons like in this examplehttp://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1996913.But Bialkiški is within Astraviec, i.e. one polygon is within another and this will... | |
| 23 | 2017-10-07 20:20:52 UTC | yaugenka | I have fixed the alt_name*s of Гудогай by myself and submitted a request to our state authority to provide the name of the official act according to which the names were officially changed. | |
| 24 | 2017-10-09 11:12:01 UTC | Jay May | O.K. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised they are not even aware that those 2 villages have slightly different names ... I'm pretty confident their answer will be very interesting to read. | |
| 25 | 2017-10-13 16:13:10 UTC | yaugenka | Here is there answerhttps://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bwqmq6xk-oieRzJfRThiUWNaOURLY3Q3SXFfRW82ZGJEVXUwThey say that the addressing system (which includes the registry) was formally launched in 2012 and the villages have always been named in the registry as "п. Гудогай" and &quo... | |
| 26 | 2017-10-13 18:49:21 UTC | SomeoneElse | However, the law doesn't affect how we generally map stuff in OSM - it's what's on the ground that matters.Don't just take my word for it, either - here's an answer to a similar question elsewhere: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2017-October/017990.html . | |
| 27 | 2017-10-13 19:10:11 UTC | yaugenka | I understand the on the ground rule and do not insist on changing the name right now but they may and are likely to correct the sign soon. Is anyone going to travel there from time to time to track the change for the map to stay up to date? | |
| 28 | 2017-10-13 19:30:26 UTC | SomeoneElse | > Is anyone going to travel there from time to time to track the change for the map to stay up to date?To be honest, it's how I keep stuff up to date where I live. Obviously (as Canadians on OSM lists point out regularly) that's less applicable to places with a significantly lower population d... | |
| 29 | 2017-10-13 19:58:47 UTC | Jay May | I will be there in a week or two.About what you mentioned above on the ground rule regarding India: English has been chosen despite being a minority language because it is a language that is displayed in every roadsign, no matter the language of the province. Same for Ireland or the non-Brussels b... | |
| 30 | 2017-10-13 20:33:54 UTC | yaugenka | Imagine your need to make a business trip to this village and got a ticke to "п. Гудогай" - that is the name which is used in all documents and on the web. So you search for that name on the map but don't find any because on the map it is named "Станция Гудогай&q... | |
| 31 | 2017-10-14 10:38:54 UTC | Jay May | ...and then they arrive on-spot and see „Станцыя Гудагай” written in Belarusian, which makes them really wonder what exactly is wrong with those names ... Neither the language, neither the full name correspond. „Что сделать...” | |
| 32 | 2017-10-14 11:24:35 UTC | SomeoneElse | For info, there's a widely-used tag for the "official name" of places: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/official_name . | |
| 33 | 2017-10-14 11:37:39 UTC | yaugenka | What is the sense of introducing one extra tag when 99.99% of names correspond to official ones and the remaing 0.01% is a \tneglect of the authorities who did not change the sign properly? | |
| 34 | 2017-10-14 11:40:20 UTC | SomeoneElse | Feel free to corretc me with actual numbers, but my impression so far is that a _very high percentage_ of names in OSM in BE don't match the names on the signs. One of the arguments put forward was that they are official names. | |
| 35 | 2017-10-14 11:43:44 UTC | yaugenka | >my impression so far is that a _very high percentage_ of names in OSM in BE don't match the names on the signs.Can you give some examples apart from "Гудогай" where the names mismatch? | |
| 36 | 2017-10-14 11:55:11 UTC | SomeoneElse | Well, the DWG was sent lots of photographs of roadsigns and placenames in BE that in OSM are mapped in RU. | |
| 37 | 2017-10-14 12:16:46 UTC | yaugenka | We are not talking about the use of languages here, are we? This discussion is only about the correspondence of signs to official names. Both russian and belarusian names are official. | |
| 38 | 2017-10-16 05:53:16 UTC | Jay May | I wouldn't say "What is the sense of introducing one extra tag when 99.99% of names correspond to official ones". Given the number of wrong names I corrected on the Belarusian soil, I would say up to 80% of the names do correspond .Let alone the language question - many times the name in R... | |
| 39 | 2017-10-16 07:59:48 UTC | yaugenka | >I would say up to 80% of the names do correspondPlease provide examples of the 20%. | |
| 40 | 2017-10-16 11:50:19 UTC | Jay May | I've changed so many of them that now I won't remember everything :) Those Belarusian toponyms I had to change were mainly names with "-ызна" finishing with "-ына" in reality and the other way round (a lot of them), Янава called Янова officially (and other such n... | |
| 41 | 2017-10-16 17:03:18 UTC | yaugenka | >Янава called Янова officially.The first one is in Belarusian the second one is in Russaion. So you are mixing languauges here.>names with "-ызна" finishing with "-ына" in realityProvide exact examples please.>Валейкішкі on roadsigns / ... | |
| 52781985 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-10-12 21:55:14 UTC | 4004 | Isn't it "operator=BelToll"? |
| 2 | 2017-10-13 06:25:49 UTC | Jay May | What do you mean? That is what I wrote, right? :) | |
| 3 | 2017-10-13 22:03:44 UTC | 4004 | yeah, you did, but you also added name=BelToll, Jay. Is it really necessary there? It could be argued it's not really the name of the node | |
| 4 | 2017-10-14 10:33:49 UTC | Jay May | From a driver’s point of view it is more than useful, especially for drivers wanting to bypass as many toll booths as possiblr. I know what you mean, but I’m afraid putting the whole name “BelToll toll booth for buses, trucks, and non-Customs-Union cars” would not be effectiv... | |
| 5 | 2017-10-14 17:32:16 UTC | 4004 | I see your point, but I'm just not sure this is correct tagging, adding a name tag just so this is easily discernible on the map. Technically speaking, all public road tolls on Belarusian roads are run by Beltoll, so one should assume it's Beltoll when noticing a booth tagged. To confirm this, "... | |
| 6 | 2017-10-16 06:23:08 UTC | Jay May | There is still a lot of things to agree on those BelToll things. Some people are tagging it "toll=no, toll:hgv=yes", which I don't agree with because all cars which are not from the Customs Union need to pay. We must find a way for that to be reflected on OSM. Are you participating in the ... | |
| 7 | 2017-10-16 21:19:22 UTC | 4004 | tagging the toll key is another matter (although an important one), I was originally concerned with the usage of name tag here | |
| 52836567 by Tomas Straupis | 1 | 2017-10-15 19:29:02 UTC | Jay May | Good evening. May I know why you are changing "ežeras" into "ež."? A couple of OSM wiki pages clearly state we mustn't use abbreviations. |
| 2 | 2017-10-15 20:16:59 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Local agreements take precedence over international ones. | |
| 3 | 2017-10-16 06:02:31 UTC | Jay May | ... and where is the Lithuanian local agreement? | |
| 4 | 2017-10-16 06:33:13 UTC | Tomas Straupis | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lithuaniahttps://lt.wikibooks.org/wiki/Atviro_%C5%BEem%C4%97lapio_vadovas | |
| 52711383 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-10-09 12:48:36 UTC | juhanjuku | Can you please explain why you changed highway classification from secondary to primary for Rapla — Järvakandi — Kergu? |
| 2 | 2017-10-10 05:45:28 UTC | Jay May | Hello. Because I drove there and it is an alternative route to the Via Baltica, just like the road through Lihula. Why do you ask? Do you think it is wrong? | |
| 3 | 2017-10-10 06:23:46 UTC | juhanjuku | Estonian OSM community has agreed higways classifications. Primary are highways connecting big citys.https://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%B5himaantee.Please don't change them.Also, please don't use Bing aerial images for Estonia because they have big shift. Instead you can use Maaamet images w... | |
| 4 | 2017-10-10 07:05:33 UTC | Jay May | Hi againI understood that, which is why I changed the classification. However, I understand what you mean: if you take the road stretches I changed separately, for sure they are not roads connecting main cities. However, I changed that because I have a vistion of routes as a whole. I think it is a... | |
| 5 | 2017-10-10 07:14:14 UTC | juhanjuku | It has been discussion in local OSM forum and about roads classification in Estonia and agreed to stick to wiki definition. It was common decision, so please don't change them.I reverted your changes. | |
| 6 | 2017-10-10 07:16:38 UTC | juhanjuku | Official classification from Estonian authorities:https://www.mnt.ee/et/tee/eesti-teedevork | |
| 7 | 2017-10-10 08:37:36 UTC | Jay May | What about the Western Rapla bypass?Where is that local agreement? Not that I want to discuss the reverting of all this stretch, but I would like at least the town bypasses to be signed higher than parallel roads leading through city centersP.S: thanks a lot for your suggestion about maaamet. | |
| 8 | 2017-10-10 13:12:47 UTC | juhanjuku | Discussion about road classes was in local OSM forum.In Estonia we have permission from Maaamet to use state official data. Roads classification around Rapla you can see here:http://xgis.maaamet.ee/xGIS/XGis?app_id=UU75&user_id=at&bbox=540882.217420021,6537584.08015333,551605.020142087,6... | |
| 52540628 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-10-06 07:52:41 UTC | Harald Hartmann | Hello JayMay. Athttp://www.openstreetmap.org/way/40799359you have tagged`name:ру`.But i couldn't find `py` inhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-2_codesIs it a typo? |
| 2 | 2017-10-06 08:17:28 UTC | Jay May | lol Thanks for highlighting it.It was supposed to be "name:ru", but I had forgotten to switch the keyboard before writing "ru" so it was writen in Cyrillic as "ру". :D :D :DI've just corrected it. If you see similar mistakes ru/ру made by myself (sometimes I wan... | |
| 49988701 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-10-01 17:54:20 UTC | yaugenka | Please do not delete "place" tag from relations/ways. |
| 2 | 2017-10-02 05:39:43 UTC | Jay May | ? What are you talking about? | |
| 3 | 2017-10-02 07:52:12 UTC | yaugenka | Here are some examples where you deleted "place" tags from hamlet boundaries. Later on I moved all tag info into the relations.http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25139642/historyhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25139645/historyhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/way/271970034/history | |
| 4 | 2017-10-02 09:00:27 UTC | Jay May | Are you sure it was me? I usually never delete this kind of info unless I want to create a new item or create a new relation between the built-up area and the name of the place (but 3 months ago I didn't even know such things exist ...) | |
| 5 | 2017-10-02 14:27:28 UTC | Jay May | I see nothing wrong here. | |
| 6 | 2017-10-02 17:02:27 UTC | yaugenka | It is not possible to identify settlement boundary if there is no "place" tag in it. So it is very wrong to delete this tag. | |
| 52531653 by yaugenka | 1 | 2017-10-02 14:19:23 UTC | Jay May | Please revert these changes. I put the right names of the villages. I drive regularly through them. They are called Maly Hudahaj and Stancyja Hudahaj. Only the train station itself is called "Hudahaj" Do not change such things without asking! |
| 52322713 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-10-01 17:31:24 UTC | yaugenka | Hi. Can you tell why this hamlet was changed to suburb?http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1670519816 |
| 2 | 2017-10-02 05:42:00 UTC | Jay May | Because it is a suburb and not a village. When you drive there, the Narbuty village limit is precisely where Zarečča is mapped. | |
| 3 | 2017-10-02 06:10:56 UTC | Jay May | Now, you are welcome to revert the changes you made. | |
| 4 | 2017-10-02 17:16:30 UTC | yaugenka | All our official documents say that Заречье is a separate hamlet. Did you ask people if the hamlets were united into one? It is possible that the sign was put into wrong place. | |
| 51820940 by LLlypuk82 | 1 | 2017-09-07 20:57:38 UTC | Jay May | Hello. May I know the reason why you are reverting names? |
| 2 | 2017-09-07 21:29:45 UTC | LLlypuk82 | Hello. Yes, of course. According Закон Республики Беларусь от 16.11.2010 №190-З "О наименованиях географических объектов" (http://pravo.newsby.org/belarus/zakon0/z326.htm) geonames in Belarus are assigned and stored in two lan... | |
| 3 | 2017-09-07 21:47:10 UTC | Jay May | If I follow your logic, then I should change by default each country/region/village where the majority of the population speaks another language than the one on the roadsigns (for example, I should put Polish in Eastern Lithuania, Russian in Eastern Latvia, Hungarian in Southern Slovakia and to Arab... | |
| 4 | 2017-09-07 21:50:03 UTC | Jay May | P.S.: Please note even Russian maps Yandex use Belarusian names as the main ones. | |
| 5 | 2017-09-07 21:59:32 UTC | LLlypuk82 | Are you sure about Yandex? There is a screenshot https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/sanik82/album/419689/view/1443769 | |
| 6 | 2017-09-07 22:06:56 UTC | LLlypuk82 | You use incorrect analogies. Not simply "the majority of the population speaks another language than the one on the road signs", but majority of the citizens of the Belarus. | |
| 7 | 2017-09-08 05:07:43 UTC | Jay May | As soon as I am in front of a computer I will post a screenshot of Yandex (I don't know how to post it over here).Anyway my point is: OSM is not about politics or personal language preference, but about reflecting the reality and so far we were not doing that in Belarus. I drive there every two we... | |
| 8 | 2017-09-08 06:09:38 UTC | Ambush | LLlypuk82 OSM is not about language problems of biggest part of country population, it is about reflecting geographical objects in geographical data base. According to law you cited, geographical names assigned in Belarusian, then they are transliterated to Russian because this is the second nation... | |
| 9 | 2017-09-08 06:20:16 UTC | mOlind | Agreed. "name" tag is for name as it written on sign. name:ru and name:by could be filled too. To let users choose what name they want to read. Same value inside name and name:by is ok. First tolds us what should we expect to see and second in 100% times in Belarusian. | |
| 10 | 2017-09-08 06:39:30 UTC | Jay May | Screenshots from what I see from my computer on Yandex:- In English: https://plus.google.com/u/1/photos/116538206482963449572/album/6463292506880436433/6463292504796189858?authkey=CPHviqDkqcGDfw- In Russian: https://plus.google.com/u/1/photos/116538206482963449572/album/6463292506880436433/64632... | |
| 11 | 2017-09-08 07:27:39 UTC | Георгий Ильин | Напишу по-Английски ))@Jay May, thank you for highlighting this in pm. I will reply later.@LLlypuk82: please understand that this is not against Russian language ))) We have to leave the Russian name, but only in the name:ru tag (unless it appears in Russian on-spot, like for in... | |
| 12 | 2017-09-08 15:25:14 UTC | Jaŭhien | For example Google Maps https://i.imgur.com/V2SFlRN.png use the names of cities, villages and etc in Belarusian language and łacinka. Google have many users on the world, but all ok for tourists and the population of the country | |
| 13 | 2017-09-08 16:51:07 UTC | yaugenka | @Jay May, if you visit Belarus and ask people for directions, you will hardly get a reply in Belarussian language anywhere. That it the reality of our countly and the name tag must reflect that realy. If somebody wants to have names displayed in Belarussian they are free to use the name:be tag which... | |
| 14 | 2017-09-08 17:31:05 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | The main argument is the signs of the names of cities and towns that the driver sees. Seen by the driver, should be in the name. The remaining arguments (the internal language policy of the government, the language of communication of local residents) is for other mapping projects.If the Russian... | |
| 15 | 2017-09-08 18:06:33 UTC | yaugenka | The "group of people who contradict the principle of "on-ground"" signs comprize 74% of the pupulation of the country. By introducting this change you would abuse the primary users of OSM Belarus - the citizens of the country. | |
| 16 | 2017-09-08 19:08:58 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | You are plotting with official statistics. 74 percent are the urban population. The rural provincial population - the situation on the contrary - there is approximately the same figure Belarusian-speaking population. So we have parity. Or, in plain language, 50 percent of both languages comes out. Y... | |
| 17 | 2017-09-08 20:31:35 UTC | yaugenka | @Poliakoff Mykhailo, can you provide any proves of your statement that both language are used 50/50? Have you ever been in our country at all? I myself come from a village and can assure you that no one is speaking Belarusian there, those 26% are mostly located in big cities. I'm just wondering why ... | |
| 18 | 2017-09-08 22:08:19 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | In the project's argument is banners/signs/names of settlements. The argument about who what morvoû talks is not the main one. Map of what is done for turitìv. With the tourist will communicate the convenient to him. You do not mind that the plaques with the names of Belarusian. So then... | |
| 19 | 2017-09-08 23:05:25 UTC | yaugenka | Your suggestion to have two names in one one tag is out of this topic. We are now talking about replacement of russian names by belarusian ones.The number of local people using the map for business and leisure is by far bigger than the number of foreign tourists and regardless of what is written o... | |
| 20 | 2017-09-09 12:52:43 UTC | Ambush | yaugenka: one more time: Ground Truth rule is not about local traditions and preferences, it's about Ground Truth. And OSM is not a local Belarusian project. It's world wide. So you can't sacrifice billions of planet Earth people to a couple of millions citizens of one little country. | |
| 21 | 2017-09-09 12:58:38 UTC | yaugenka | @ambush, it is the question of number of users, not population. | |
| 22 | 2017-09-09 13:28:46 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | Yaugenka care less on rules and on the arguments. To him, the main thing that the Russian language everywhere won the Belarusian language. The victory should be by humiliation, discrimination of the Belarusian language. His pattern of behavior in these discussions it confirms absolutely. | |
| 23 | 2017-09-09 14:54:35 UTC | yaugenka | @Poliakoff Mykhailo, if you visit Belarus and talk to people you will hardly find anyone talking against the Belarusian language and me is not an exception. You guys are giving favor to foreign tourist, whereas I defent the interest of local people nation-wide, not just some minority. | |
| 24 | 2017-09-09 14:59:44 UTC | mOlind | I think yaugenka just misses main point. There is no negative effect for russian speaking users. Because most applications let users to change language. Open openstreetmap.by and check it yourself. There is no single reason to keep russian instead belarussian in name tag. Only because it's easier to... | |
| 25 | 2017-09-09 15:02:24 UTC | Ambush | Guys, according to what we discussed here and in personal mail I've reverted this reverting changeset. For me it's a very strange situation to discuss should we follow main OSM rules for Belarus or not. I want to propose to ask DWG to help us if we can't find satisfying decision. | |
| 26 | 2017-09-09 15:25:49 UTC | LLlypuk82 | OK. What will you propose for situation when road signs have bilingual (or more) inscriptions? | |
| 27 | 2017-09-09 20:31:38 UTC | Jay May | - Village, town and city names: name:* in Belarusian only.- Street signs: this is the tricky part. In Minsk or Brest, the situation is clear (official street signs are all in Belarusian). However, there are some towns or villages without any official street signs, just the name on the street (usua... | |
| 28 | 2017-09-09 22:24:13 UTC | yaugenka | Can anyone tell the purpose of the name tag in general? is it just for putting sign info into it and remain them whenever signs get changed? | |
| 29 | 2017-09-10 08:13:05 UTC | Jay May | The "name=*" tag in general is to show what is written on the road, street or shop signs, whatever it is. | |
| 30 | 2017-09-10 13:07:23 UTC | Ambush | I agree with Jay May. And I want to say that if someone see the name at the road sign in Russian, he can ask local authorities to fix it according to cited law. | |
| 31 | 2017-09-10 19:32:30 UTC | yaugenka | What are your aguments for renaming according to the on-ground rule except for "just because it is common convention"? | |
| 32 | 2017-09-10 20:30:58 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | Скажыце калі ласка, калі вы рэгістраваліся ў дадзеным праекце вы гатовыя былі паважаць правілы праекта падабаюцца ці не падабаюцца яны вам? Тым у што ваша пытанне з... | |
| 33 | 2017-09-11 18:50:12 UTC | yaugenka | @Poliakoff Mykhailo,I stop any communication with you because are not following the conversation and are making provoking comments.@Jay May, @Ambush, @mOlind, @Григорий Ильин, @Jaŭhien,Here are our main arguments against the change.1. There are no official up-to-date printed ... | |
| 34 | 2017-09-11 20:17:31 UTC | Георгий Ильин | My name is Георгий, not Григорий )))) Moreover, I see no provocation from Poliakoff Mykhailo, just emotions. Anyway, guys, please don't get personal (both yaugenka and Mykhailo). Let's keep this discussion calm and constructive.About your arguments:1) This doesn't change the fact ... | |
| 35 | 2017-09-11 21:32:45 UTC | yaugenka | @Георгий Ильин, first let me apologies for the mistyped name. Secondly, let me clarify the points.Whatever language you select in your settings you will still get the name from "name" tag displayed on http://www.openstreetmap.org and in editors. I think there is no need to ex... | |
| 36 | 2017-09-11 22:06:05 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | (@Poliakoff Mykhailo, I stop any communication with you because are not following the conversation and are making provoking comments.@Jay May, @Ambush, @mOlind, @Григорий Ильин, @Jaŭhien, )Согласно сложившейся практики ведения дискуссии ... | |
| 37 | 2017-09-12 00:09:53 UTC | yaugenka | @Mykhailo, you already can be banned for changing the data and open calls to continue changing the data while the discussion is still going on.The above mentioned official internet resource can freely be used for validation. Can you name any alternatives in the Belarusian language? | |
| 38 | 2017-09-12 05:37:30 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | (you already can be banned for changing the data and open calls to continue changing the data while the discussion is still going on.)- продублируйте на русском , агнлийский язык для меня совсем чужой , а в переводе Гугл и Майк... | |
| 39 | 2017-09-12 07:59:25 UTC | yaugenka | @Mykhailo,1. you was writing in Enlish very well previously, so the statement that you don't understand English is a cheat.2. the statement that official sources cannot be relied on is absolutely illogical. The same thing about replying on wikipedia.3. it is a shame to here from an attorney th... | |
| 40 | 2017-09-12 09:57:40 UTC | mavl | Hello all. > The local convention for using Russian language in the "name" tag exists from the very beginning of the osm project... yaugenka, does OSM wiki contain this convention? Vladimir Marshinin Data Working Group | |
| 41 | 2017-09-12 14:21:44 UTC | 4004 | While most of you here provide convincing arguments in favour of name:be->name, yaugenka is correct in pointing out name:be tags don't even cover some areas. Belarusian OSM community has long wanted/struggled to do the switch, but it would leave a map in disarray and possibly introduce challenges... | |
| 42 | 2017-09-12 15:46:19 UTC | Jay May | @4004: all transition periods have their own issues and there is no problem without any solution ;) Poliakoff Mykhailo seems to know a lot on a similar case: neighboring Ukraine. Anyway, on such technical details I prefer reading your propositions because I'm not as good as you guys yet. But some ... | |
| 43 | 2017-09-12 17:39:50 UTC | Ambush | And there is not a problem if there will be different languages in name (for objects which haven't name:be filled) because whole OSM name's on the planet are in different languages. If it just haven't any Belarusian alternative, it'll be left in Russian. | |
| 44 | 2017-09-12 18:08:37 UTC | LLlypuk82 | @mavlЗдесь говорится о соглашении 2009 года:https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RU:Belarus:Map_languages | |
| 45 | 2017-09-12 19:36:44 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | You must understand that the further delay matters more complicated will be the solution. Take the similar project of Google, there is a fairly well is in difficulties, you're specifying, the Belarusian version of the map. And done it all for the year and a half: Belarusian street caused caused by... | |
| 46 | 2017-09-12 23:22:29 UTC | yaugenka | @Mykhailo, you are again trying to mislead the discussion. The main argument in defence of this change is that our local convention contradicts the common rule of the on-the-ground signs.If we start following the common rule it will not be a Belarusian map. It will be a mixture of Belarusian and R... | |
| 47 | 2017-09-13 04:37:10 UTC | mavl | > Здесь говорится о соглашении 2009 года... LLlypuk82, thank you very much for it. > in disputed areas, the name that must appear is the one on the sign See also [http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes] Belarus is the stable cou... | |
| 48 | 2017-09-13 06:32:59 UTC | Георгий Ильин | A disputed area it is not necessarily an area where there is an ongoing war or that is politically unstable. A disputed area in OSM is also an area where not everyone agrees on the language that should be displayed, and it is the case of Belarus. It is also the case of some regions in stable count... | |
| 49 | 2017-09-13 06:54:52 UTC | Jay May | Wow guys, this discussion is really active :D As I'm not getting the notifications on my email, I am always amazed when I enter this thread.Let us be clear once again (sorry if I repeat what was written a couple of times):a) As a couple of us pointed out, the agreement shown above violates the m... | |
| 50 | 2017-09-13 07:36:34 UTC | Георгий Ильин | Yes )))) We are active ))) But I find it is not fair that 2 people are slowing the whole process while we had been discussing these matters for months and we had agreed on making the Belarus map realistic. To me they can be helpful on the technical part, but overall the decision has been made and it... | |
| 51 | 2017-09-13 08:15:23 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | A result of our discussion is checking for durability of основообразующего principle of project of on ground/ Ancient римляны to our era created wisdom integrity is stopped up in that . A law is severe, but it is a law. In the original of dura lex sed lex. On the observance o... | |
| 52 | 2017-09-13 08:36:39 UTC | 4004 | >Belarus is the only former USSR country where the use of Russian has increased. That is a matter of fact. However, all toponyms are in BelarusianThis is (perhaps sadly) not always the case. If you transit/travel through Belarus you might get the impression that Belarusian is indeed used univer... | |
| 53 | 2017-09-13 09:04:17 UTC | Jay May | @4004: the majority of us agreed on switching the name tag to Belarusian and to check whether the name:ru tag is filled. This is for toponyms, monuments, and administrative levels (when you travel into Belarus), you see clearly written "Мінская воблсасць" and not "Ми... | |
| 54 | 2017-09-13 09:29:10 UTC | 4004 | @Jay May>for toponyms, monuments, and administrative levelsThis should work fine for admin levels (100% bilingual I believe). Toponyms will need some work (last figure I've seen was around 70%?), while monuments is debatable, but alas.Indeed, at the time the convention was agreed there was ... | |
| 55 | 2017-09-13 10:09:15 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | @4004 Monuments are low-level edits. We are now discussing the high-level amendments-human settlements. In Ukraine, monuments of Soviet time survived also in Russian. But they did not become a hindrance to ukrainization even in the Russian-speaking territories of Ukraine. Monuments, I guess not so m... | |
| 56 | 2017-09-13 10:17:37 UTC | Jay May | @Poliakoff Mykhailo - Your point is good. You mention the ў, it is usually automatically transliterated automatically into "y" instead of "ŭ" when you switch to another language than Russian. This is why it is extremely important not to forget to transliterate into Latin in the... | |
| 57 | 2017-09-13 10:31:17 UTC | 4004 | It certainly will look similar, at least at first.@Poliakoff Mykhailo if we are talking technical points now, such a switch would introduce challenges not only for those without a "ў"-supporting keyboard, but also those confused by 2 languages used side-by-side in similar contexts, be i... | |
| 58 | 2017-09-13 11:41:32 UTC | Jay May | @4004 Anyway, nobody is trying to Belarusize business names ;) And about monuments, I had included it for 2 reasons:- they are always shown in Belarusian on roadsigns- On those monuments you usually have some sign with the word "каштоўнасць" ("monument" if I'm not ... | |
| 59 | 2017-09-13 12:32:52 UTC | mOlind | I vote for automatic process. It's easy to break things when manually changing ways and relations. | |
| 60 | 2017-09-13 12:35:39 UTC | Jay May | Given what mOlind just mentioned, I also vote for an automatic process. | |
| 61 | 2017-09-13 13:46:21 UTC | 4004 | @Jay May I believe you might've mixed up monuments (which include Lenin statues and the like) with historical/touristy places, like castles etc. Different things, certainly the historical pois (especially the important/popular ones) would usually have a name:be as well.Regarding the switch, automa... | |
| 62 | 2017-09-13 13:52:19 UTC | Jay May | Proofreading is always easier than reading ;) So it is a good solution to make it automatically and switch. Especially that people like Georgij or me are not proficient in some OSM matters yet (like that addr tag) | |
| 63 | 2017-09-13 14:14:03 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | I'm for the automaticThen 2-3 days and on the map will be the Belarusian language. When it appears you will be able to click through all the settlements. To correct to the Belarusian language name: prefix addr: district addr province Also I ask to approve the name tag: en where the name of objec... | |
| 64 | 2017-09-13 14:16:49 UTC | Jay May | My opinion is that the English tag in that standard would be O.K., but the int_name tag should be in Belarusian Łacinka. | |
| 65 | 2017-09-13 15:33:07 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | The result should be reported on the page of the communities of neighboring countries and DWG. | |
| 66 | 2017-09-14 08:30:08 UTC | 4004 | a forum topic needs to be started on this, and approval from DWG would be nice, before doing anything | |
| 67 | 2017-09-14 09:03:56 UTC | 4004 | int_name is already filed correctly, in accordance with http://www.pravo.by/pdf/2007-159/2007-159%28027-028%29.pdf | |
| 68 | 2017-09-14 09:59:23 UTC | Jay May | O.K.guys. As soon as you start, please provide the link | |
| 69 | 2017-09-14 11:13:21 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | I will finalize now the Khotsinsk raion then along the border with the Russian Federation, then the area to the north of the Khotsinsk raion. | |
| 70 | 2017-09-14 11:23:46 UTC | 4004 | I would propose we wait until there is an agreement on how and when to proceed, and do not attempt anything before that | |
| 71 | 2017-09-14 11:26:40 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | how to do the proposed example http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25076922 | |
| 72 | 2017-09-14 11:45:47 UTC | 4004 | aren't you rushing a bit Mykhailo? No agreement has been reached, no DWG approval granted, and it was supposed to be centralized and auto, no "regional tests" | |
| 73 | 2017-09-14 12:29:56 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | This format I provided earlier in this discussion. Therefore, we are informed. If something causes you suspicion, express ideas. | |
| 74 | 2017-09-14 12:34:14 UTC | Ambush | At the ByOSM Telegram chat we decided to have a meeting to discuss all the technical details, tools and other before doing any automated changes.Welcome everyone who wants to join this discussion, t.me/byosm | |
| 75 | 2017-09-14 12:35:08 UTC | 4004 | "We" might be informed, but this is not enough to start implementing changes, and certainly not by doing it on your own in one place."Мы" тут, может быть, и в курсе, но этого недостаточно, чтобы начинать что-то меня... | |
| 76 | 2017-09-14 12:51:47 UTC | 4004 | @Ambush could the osm forum be a better place? | |
| 77 | 2017-09-14 12:53:16 UTC | LLlypuk82 | You are welcome http://openstreetmap.by/ | |
| 78 | 2017-09-14 12:57:09 UTC | 4004 | that's the renderer that uses name:be if it exists | |
| 79 | 2017-09-15 00:41:52 UTC | yaugenka | Until it is completely agreed to change the current local convention, it must be observed! All changes have been reverted. | |
| 80 | 2017-09-15 06:26:42 UTC | Георгий Ильин | Jaugenka, I've just gone through the threads of various discussions this morning and you wrote "ничего не трогаем" ("we don't touch anything"). Thus, nobody allowed you to revert any changes, especially given the fact other multilingual names and wikipedia data hav... | |
| 81 | 2017-09-15 06:33:21 UTC | Jay May | Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?????????????????? Jauhenka deleted all the changes we had all made from the very beginning! As you said Georgij, multilingual changes, but even road changes! I was Jauhenka was a reasonable person, but I'm afraid what one of the guys told me is right: he is just trying to gain ... | |
| 82 | 2017-09-15 07:45:59 UTC | yaugenka | Fist of all, all of you were warned several times in this thread not to make any changes while the discussion is going on. Secondly, for now only renamings of settlements and admin boundaries have been reverted. I'm yet to analyse what else you have renamed. | |
| 83 | 2017-09-15 07:49:00 UTC | mOlind | Вот только не надо брать на себя святую миссию все откатывать. Это сильно пахнет вандализмом и может закончится баном. Я не оправдываю тех, кто полез переименовыват... | |
| 84 | 2017-09-15 07:54:17 UTC | mOlind | Как я вижу ситуацию на настоящий момент: Переименование будет. Будет по всей стране и в автоматизированном режиме. Ни одно название на русском не пострадает. Все бу... | |
| 85 | 2017-09-15 07:55:03 UTC | mOlind | Кто очень хочет начать переименовывать - вносите name:be, где их нету. Они не потеряются и будут использованы в последующем для name. | |
| 86 | 2017-09-15 08:58:28 UTC | Jay May | @yaugenka: O.K. There is an enormous confusion here with people asking to change manually while people discuss about changing automatically, people asking to wait for the automatic change, and people who don't want any change. Nevertheless, that doesn't change the fact that no one gave you the autho... | |
| 87 | 2017-09-15 09:45:17 UTC | 4004 | >Кто очень хочет начать переименовывать - вносите name:be, где их нету. Они не потеряются и будут использованы в последующем для name+1 to that (your app is nice btw).Translation: those who want ... | |
| 88 | 2017-09-15 10:07:33 UTC | 4004 | Oh, and here is a translation checkerhttp://latlon.org/~alex73/vulicy.html | |
| 89 | 2017-09-15 14:32:59 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | 4004 : перестаньте пользуясь что не все грамотньіе технически вводить людей в заблуждение. Указанньіе на офруме проблемі являются вьідуманньіми лично Вами. Поповоду... | |
| 90 | 2017-09-15 14:43:00 UTC | 4004 | @Poliakoff Mykhailo: вы меня с кем то путаете? я никого в заблуждение не ввожу, и уж точно ничего не придумываю. последняя ссылка, которую я тут привел - ближе всего, из того, ... | |
| 91 | 2017-09-15 15:34:59 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | а как делаем -- оставляем name:be-tarask и дублируем в name:be? Или name be-tarask переделываем в name be. при этом надо учитыват ь что здесь одинаково то ест ька кбы транслитерация а сог... | |
| 92 | 2017-09-15 23:57:27 UTC | 4004 | Всем заинтересованным:-в первую очередь необходимо проверить, что name=name:ru для будущего перехода автоматом. Если name!=name:ru, проверить какой из вариантов соответствуе... | |
| 93 | 2017-09-16 13:57:18 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | Есть проблемное село в Хотимском раене Ново-Григорьевка. По белорусски не соотвествует русскому . Искать надо официальное название на белорусском или подтвержден... | |
| 94 | 2017-09-16 15:37:13 UTC | yaugenka | @Mykhailo, вам для справки. В одном районе может быть несколько нп с одним названием. Если они отличаются типом (поселок, деревня, снп) то тип нужно обязательно указать в ... | |
| 95 | 2017-09-16 17:24:43 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | Изучите правки мои в Хоцінскам раёне. Все о чем вы пишите сделано мною изначально кроме сельсовета . Сейчас заново перегребаю район чтоб всем поставить сельсоветы | |
| 96 | 2017-09-17 17:01:28 UTC | yaugenka | Всем НП проставлять сельсовет большой надобности нету. Речь только о тех, у которых повторяется название в рамках одного района. | |
| 97 | 2017-09-18 05:40:27 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | то что вы предлагаете, превратить карту в порнографию. Тег используется или нет. Предстоит много подготовительной работы . И нет времени тратить времени на изучени... | |
| 98 | 2017-09-18 06:36:40 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | Яугенка всвязи с тем что іВовік занимается занимаеться расизмом ксенофобией и дискриминацией белорусского языка | |
| 99 | 2017-09-19 21:36:11 UTC | yaugenka | @Mykhailo, переименовывая addr:* и name:prefix на белорусский вы ломаете существующие программы. Откатывайте свои правки! | |
| 100 | 2017-09-20 08:25:34 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | Праблема Беларусі я бачу не ў сферы тэхналогій, у у тым, што ў кіраўніцтве ўсіх інтэрнэт-праектаў сядзяць людзі якія атрымліваюць дадатковыя матэрыяльныя ўзнагаро... | |
| 101 | 2017-09-20 08:37:15 UTC | mOlind | И обсуждение скатилось в флуд. Отписываюсь. | |
| 102 | 2017-09-20 09:43:36 UTC | 4004 | собственно как и в телеграме. что то менять никто не договаривался | |
| 103 | 2017-09-20 11:48:49 UTC | Jay May | @4004 Which is why I asked for people in Telegram "where are we going" because it is such a mess that it's hard for everyone to get what we should do.@Mykhailo @Yaugenka - STOP! | |
| 104 | 2017-09-20 21:24:13 UTC | SomeoneElse | Hi all - Andy from the Data Working Group here. A couple have people have mentioned the ongoing arguments about language names in Belarus to us, and we'd like to do what we can to help. Obviously we're somewhat aware of the history here (and I've read the various numbers, some conflicting, on https... | |
| 105 | 2017-09-21 06:25:22 UTC | Jay May | Hi Andy. I've already sent such pics around a week ago. Please ask your colleague Frederik Ramm. In case you need them again, I can send them once more :)In short, asI had already told, toponyms are usually in Belarusian (cities, towns, villages, rivers, lakes...) while commercial names are most... | |
| 106 | 2017-09-21 13:38:55 UTC | LLlypuk82 | Stop, guys. What about our local agreement which was reached in same time as road signs was already in belorussian?Nothing is changed still. There is no reason to avoid the agreement. Photos have no sense in this case. | |
| 107 | 2017-09-22 05:36:58 UTC | Jay May | The local agreement was perhaps good in a certain context back in 2009. But the context has changed. | |
| 108 | 2017-09-24 10:06:56 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | To improve an electronic geographical map ONLY on signboards confirms the Belarussian WIKI-RULEhttps://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RU:Belarus:%D0%9E%D0%B1%D1%89%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%82_%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%... | |
| 109 | 2017-09-28 19:34:48 UTC | SomeoneElse | For info, I've just posted this to the BE forum:https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=665838#p665838All feedback (from everyone who hasn't already commented) gratefully received. | |
| 110 | 2017-10-01 09:33:27 UTC | Maturi0n | I think the most important factor here should be what the local OSM community wants. People from other countries (Poland, Ukraine, Russia, etc) shouldn't dictate the Belarusian community which language they use as their main mapping language. If they agreed to use Russian, this should be respected. ... | |
| 111 | 2017-10-02 06:07:55 UTC | Jay May | @Maturi0n - I’m aware your heart beats more for the Russian language to be left, but this is not a matter of the local community wanting or not wanting something (and anyway most of the guys who discuss with us do support the Belarusian language or a full ground truth rule). OSM is neither a l... | |
| 112 | 2017-10-02 08:33:13 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | Now the rule according to signs "decides at the earth" works or not. Or the precedent which will do to other countries by a push is created, the fact that there is a wish. Especially it is dangerous to territories of the conflicts where the tomahawk of wars of changes is dug. The Belarusia... | |
| 113 | 2017-10-02 08:39:52 UTC | Poliakoff Mykhailo | in Russian Сейчас решаеться правило по знакам "на земле " работает или нет. Или создается прецедент, который будет толчком другим странам делать , то что хочется. О... | |
| 49001894 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-10-01 19:32:23 UTC | yaugenka | Hi. Please note that alternative names should be put into "alt_name:" tag instead of in breakets of the "name:" tag. Thanks. |
| 2 | 2017-10-01 19:45:46 UTC | yaugenka | and btw where do you take those alterantive names from. I cannot find any reference in our office documents about such names | |
| 3 | 2017-10-01 19:51:07 UTC | yaugenka | If those are old names, they should be put int "old_name" tag instead. | |
| 4 | 2017-10-02 05:40:57 UTC | Jay May | All my sources are in my profile. | |
| 5 | 2017-10-02 11:58:22 UTC | yaugenka | It is not good putting pre-Worl War II names into "name" tag. They should be put in old_name tag instead. | |
| 51700536 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-09-22 13:28:32 UTC | Jay May | I do not understand why my changes have been reversed. On wiki (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway), it is clearly indicated:- Highway=trunk: "The most important roads in a country's system that aren't motorways. (Need not necessarily be a divided highway.)"- Highway=pr... |
| 2 | 2017-09-22 14:35:46 UTC | ToeBee | You commented on your own changeset. Whoever reverted your changes isn't going to see this. You need to find the changeset that changed the classification back and comment there. Also, I will say that using a proper changeset comment explaining why you changed the highway tag might make it less like... | |
| 3 | 2017-09-22 15:16:08 UTC | Jay May | O.K. I will revert those changes manually as I don’t have JOSM. Thanks | |
| 52152353 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-09-22 07:05:56 UTC | Harald Hartmann | Hello Jay May. At http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/411066590 you have tagged `hg` instead of `hgv`, right? #typo |
| 2 | 2017-09-22 07:34:45 UTC | Jay May | Hi Harald :)Yes, it was a typo. It was supposed to be "hgv" :)Thanks for highlighting that. I corrected it. | |
| 48327539 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-09-21 13:31:27 UTC | SomeoneElse | For the avoidance of any doubt - Google Streetview isn't a valid source for OSM (the licence is incompatible). Obviously you may be mapping things from local knowledge here (and just saying "they really do exist; you can look at GSV if you don't believe me!"), and this data has been delet... |
| 2 | 2017-09-22 05:41:32 UTC | Jay May | Hi Andy. I’ve already been acknowledged with this fact a couple of months ago, after what I stopped using GSV for OSM immediately; but thanks for your reminder. Kind regards. Jerry | |
| 3 | 2017-09-22 05:42:45 UTC | Jay May | P.S.: in this case I hadn’t used GSV, but I wrote that because one specific user from LT kept deleting my changes and I was angry... | |
| 52034334 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-09-15 08:13:31 UTC | LidaCity | вандал! |
| 2 | 2017-09-15 08:30:01 UTC | Jay May | ? | |
| 52026686 by pavel-kulik | 1 | 2017-09-14 06:49:45 UTC | Jay May | Hello Pavel :)Thanks for participating in our effort to make the map more realistic.However, please bear in mind we agreed to:step a) Copy "name:be" to "name"step b) Leave the Russian name in "name:ru".In this case, I'm afraid you removed totally the "nam... |
| 2 | 2017-09-14 08:28:46 UTC | 4004 | Anyone with josm at hand, please revert | |
| 3 | 2017-09-14 08:40:44 UTC | 4004 | nevermind, done | |
| 4 | 2017-09-14 08:54:12 UTC | Jay May | @4004 We should explain to Pavel-kulik that the aim of the changes is not to delete the Russian names, but to put them at the right place... | |
| 5 | 2017-09-14 09:32:34 UTC | 4004 | I (and possibly others) messaged him before trying to understand his logic and guide him, but got no reply, so has been wary of his changes | |
| 6 | 2017-09-14 09:35:49 UTC | Jay May | Then his account should be suspended. At least temporarily | |
| 7 | 2017-09-14 10:04:03 UTC | 4004 | reported to DWG | |
| 8 | 2017-09-15 04:25:41 UTC | mavl | Здравствуйте, pavel-kulik. Спасибо за участие в проекте OpenStreetMap. Участники проекта заметили, что вы удаляете признаки (теги) name:be и name:ru и меняете значение признака name. ... | |
| 50951620 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-08-09 10:15:17 UTC | juhanjuku | Why you connected waterway and highway with node? Node: Valka (LV) - Valga (EST) (5022787218) |
| 2 | 2017-08-09 10:49:40 UTC | Jay May | Sorry, I do not understand your question... Where exactly? | |
| 3 | 2017-08-09 10:53:42 UTC | juhanjuku | Select below in your changeset nodeNode: Valka (LV) - Valga (EST) (5022787218)and you see the place | |
| 4 | 2017-08-09 10:57:53 UTC | Jay May | I am unable to see the exact place. Anyway, I don't remember merging a waterway and a waterway with a node. So it is most probably a mistake from myself. Could you please correct it? | |
| 5 | 2017-08-09 11:04:41 UTC | juhanjuku | Its border point where highways Semināra iela & Sepa intersect with stream Varžupīte.You can see error in Osmose.I can correct it. | |
| 6 | 2017-08-09 11:08:52 UTC | Jay May | Aaa. now I see it. Actually my aim was to merge the border point on the bridge so it is in phase both with the national LV/EST border, as well as with the river (Varžupite). However, that border point must be on the bridge.I was also looking for the Estonian name of that river, but haven't found ... | |
| 50582202 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-07-31 15:45:14 UTC | mueschel | Hi,could you explain all the name tags of this node?http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4858193412I doubt it has this name with '3.5 t' |
| 2 | 2017-08-01 07:13:29 UTC | Jay May | Hi :)Sure! This is for people using OSM-based GPS apps (ex.: maps.me) to know which lane is for regular cars (≤3.5t meaning “for vehicles with a weight up to 3,5 tons), and which one is for trucks (TIR, abbreviation of Transport International Routier, is understood by every truck driver u... | |
| 3 | 2017-08-01 14:30:29 UTC | mueschel | We do have a clear policy that the name tag contains just the actual name and does not contain any description. For this you can use tags like maxweight or hgv. If tools like maps.me do not support this, request them to adapt to common OSM tagging rules. | |
| 4 | 2017-08-01 17:40:00 UTC | Jay May | One question: what will it change for OSM if those border control tagged names are not visible to regular OSM users anyway? | |
| 5 | 2017-08-01 18:15:40 UTC | mueschel | Who is a "regular osm user"? There are hundreds of different maps and tools around. All of them render different things. And for example searching for names gets increasingly difficult if we add arbitrary information to the name tag. | |
| 6 | 2017-08-01 18:52:38 UTC | Jay May | I'm afraid this is not arbitrary info. It is useful info, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time to look for it and reflect it on OSM. Rules are there as an indication, and may sometimes be wrong Some of them must be changed. You state the policy on names it clear. I'm afraid it isn't. There are a cou... | |
| 50159972 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-07-10 07:44:59 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Do NOT delete name:lt tags. |
| 2 | 2017-07-11 09:11:34 UTC | Jay May | Do NOT write in big letters (this shows aggressiveness) and do NOT delete my changes on Kareivių g. Thank you. | |
| 3 | 2017-07-11 12:11:45 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Please read the manual and stop adding crap data to the map and I will not delete it because I have NEVER deleted any good data. | |
| 4 | 2017-07-11 16:07:08 UTC | Jay May | You have deleted good data already a couple of times (useful border crossing info, names, and so on), and you thought nobody would discover it. Not only from me, but other users. Stop assuming you know everything better than everyone. Kareivių g. being widened, and such data is useful both for OSM ... | |
| 5 | 2017-07-11 16:21:22 UTC | Tomas Straupis | I did try showing you your errors, but you bluntly ignored my guidance and continued random mapping. So I have no other option than to revert your changes.Widening of Kareivių does not need new vectors as there will be no physical barriers. Once again, instead of complaining you should better rea... | |
| 49301713 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-06-18 14:22:30 UTC | Nearo | Hello Meijerry,In this changeset you changed the French name of Maastricht, and the English name of Nijmegen. While these names were used in the past, both cities are currently referred to with their Dutch name. The French and English version are not in use anymore. Therefore I would like to kin... |
| 2 | 2017-06-19 06:37:17 UTC | Jay May | Hello Nearo.As a French guy, I can tell you it is true Maëstricht is not used by the current generation, but I stilll know elderly people who use it.About reverting changes: I am abroad right now & I can hardly access any computer. Could you please revert those changes for me this time?... | |
| 3 | 2017-06-19 21:14:59 UTC | Nearo | Hey Jerry,I just changed the name:fr tag of Maastricht to old_name:fr. Furthermore I found some old documents where Nijmegen is referred to as Nimeguen in English, so I did the same with the name:en tag there.Kind regards,Nearo | |
| 4 | 2017-06-20 04:22:55 UTC | Jay May | Thanks :) | |
| 49262552 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-06-05 10:31:36 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Reverted random destruction of highway classification. |
| 2 | 2017-06-05 15:22:41 UTC | Jay May | This is no highway... I have friends living in that part of the city and I drove there 2 days ago. That street is not asphalted, bumpy, and not suitable for big traffic. | |
| 3 | 2017-06-05 16:21:11 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Please study according to what principles ways are classified. Paved, not paved, bumpy or not has absolutely no influence on classification.Good rule is to NOT edit what is already entered, because most of the time you're destroying good data and I could one day decide to revert full changesets r... | |
| 4 | 2017-06-05 18:22:59 UTC | Jay May | Following your logic, Tomas, it means OSM is useless because you can't correct mistakes from previous users nor add forrest tracks for bikers, nor update road classification changes, etc. OSM's advantage is that if any change has been seen on spot, it can be made immediately. If some roads appear 30... | |
| 49261280 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-06-05 10:27:33 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Reverted random destruction of routing tag „noexit“. |
| 2 | 2017-06-05 15:23:53 UTC | Jay May | ? | |
| 3 | 2017-06-05 15:52:54 UTC | Jay May | What is that "noexit" tag? | |
| 4 | 2017-06-05 16:22:45 UTC | Tomas Straupis | If you do not know what that tag is and how it is used, then do NOT change its values. | |
| 5 | 2017-06-05 18:10:03 UTC | Jay May | First of all: I'm not your child, so please speak nicer to me. I am pretty confident I'm older than you are.Second: if I touched it not knowing what it is, it means I didn't do it on purpose.Third: you didn't answer my question: what is that "noexit" tag? | |
| 49263356 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-06-05 10:36:52 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Reverted random incorrect classification. |
| 2 | 2017-06-05 15:25:38 UTC | Jay May | ? Incorrect classification of what? | |
| 49051984 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-05-29 20:04:35 UTC | RichRico | Hi meijerry,Thanks for contributing with osm, the names according with wikidata are different the names that you modified https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q743218regards |
| 2 | 2017-05-30 09:21:49 UTC | Jay May | Are you referring to Janów nad Wilią in Polish and Янава in Belarusian? Janów na Wilią is available in a couple of sources, among which wikimapia http://wikimapia.org/739189/pl/Jan%C3%B3w-nad-Wili%C4%85 and Янава is the traditional Belarusian name (https://be-tarask.wikip... | |
| 3 | 2017-05-30 12:11:05 UTC | Jay May | Added "Janów" in alt_name:pl and "Ёнава" in alt_name:be. For Belarusian names abroad, I will try to add always the traditional name as primary as that is the one that is used by Belarusian speakers (and not simple transliterations) :) Any additional questions, feel ... | |
| 48964859 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-05-26 19:00:46 UTC | RichRico | Hi meijerryThanks for contributing with OSM,I found a changeset in the name of the place:town Salacgrīva according Wikidata Q659665 the name is "name:pl=Salacgrīva" and not "name:pl=salis".Maybe you have a another explanation for the name Salis.Regards |
| 2 | 2017-05-26 19:39:31 UTC | Jay May | Hi! Sure. In this specific case it is wikipedia in Polish (though it is shown as a historical name). I know it sounds more Lithuanian than Polish, but well... you know how it is in PL/BY/LT/LV where Baltic names tend to be mixed with Slavic ones. As I know wikipedia is far from perfect, for other Po... | |
| 48570950 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-05-10 19:35:40 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Note that it is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE to use Google Maps or Google Street View for OSM. My advice is to revert all changes promptly and read terms of usage of any source you use BEFORE using them. In this case it would be good thing to read Google terms of service. |
| 2 | 2017-05-12 07:18:37 UTC | Jay May | Change reverted (it was only one field road ...) | |
| 3 | 2017-05-12 07:46:45 UTC | Jay May | Btw, I read those Google terms. There is only one mention that may make you think it is a criminal offence (but this sentence is still ambiguous): "No incorporating Google software into other software. You will not incorporate any software provided as part of the Service into other software.&qu... | |
| 4 | 2017-05-12 08:28:05 UTC | Tomas Straupis | This paragraph is regarding software. Regarding data Google has stated numerous times that it is not allowed to vectorise data from google sattelite imagery, google maps or google street view. | |
| 48416514 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-05-05 09:15:01 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Reverted some incorrect changes of stream names. |
| 2 | 2017-05-05 13:55:11 UTC | Jay May | Aaaaaaaaa. I wanted to fill them in Polish, not in the "name" tag".Thanks. | |
| 3 | 2017-05-05 13:55:27 UTC | Jay May | (I mean: in "name:pl" and not in "name") | |
| 48331808 by Tomas Straupis | 1 | 2017-05-02 11:23:25 UTC | Jay May | Hi Tomas, why do you keep deleting the border checkpoint limits? I enter them so it is clear where they are, and so do OSM users around the world.Moreover, I had created a couple of lanes on the Lavoriškės checkpoint in order to ease border crossing for people ("All passports", &... |
| 2 | 2017-05-02 11:30:41 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Because these (and a lot of other) objects are not tagged according to OpenStreetMap wiki information. Randomly mapped data is useless and it only introduces unnecessary complexity.As per mapping agreements in Lithuania lanes are NOT mapped as separate vectors bur rather as additional lane tags on... | |
| 3 | 2017-05-03 07:44:58 UTC | Jay May | You could have written that earlier - we are people, aren't we? It is important to talk. I am new to openstreetmap and so far, absolutely no one in Latvia, Belarus, Russian or Poland made any problem out of my changes to any border checkpoint, road, name, etc.as the aim is to be as accurate as possi... | |
| 4 | 2017-05-03 08:35:59 UTC | Tomas Straupis | As far as I know nobody in the countries you mention is doing hourly changeset review. I did see a number of errors outside Lithuania, so somebody sometime WILL notice them and do something about it.By "randomly" I mean that you did not check the meaning/usage of tags in OSM wiki. You wo... | |
| 47998055 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-04-24 11:03:29 UTC | poornibadrinath | Hi meijerry, I came across your edits and noticed while you added the town name, you have deleted the place=town tag itself. Please be careful when you are editing and ensure you are not deleting any valuable data while editing a feature. Thanks!Best,Poornima |
| 2 | 2017-04-24 18:33:40 UTC | Jay May | Hi Poornima!Thanks for your note.How can I see where is the mistake I made? I see only a zone, but not the place itself. Kind regardsJerry | |
| 3 | 2017-04-26 06:30:03 UTC | poornibadrinath | Hi Jerry, This is the node for which you deleted the town tag. You can open the node in JOSM and check. http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/317360830Poornima | |
| 4 | 2017-04-26 08:37:03 UTC | Jay May | Wow, I hadn't even seen I deleted it! Thanks! | |
| 48119343 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-04-25 16:16:14 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Atstatytas teisingas (oficialus) gyvenvietės pavadinimas „Elzbietina“. |
| 2 | 2017-04-25 18:07:49 UTC | Jay May | O.K. Ačiū | |
| 48084712 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-04-25 06:05:21 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Reverted surface to asphalt, because Lithuanian road agency says that is the surface of this road. |
| 2 | 2017-04-25 06:19:44 UTC | Jay May | Hmmm. Strange. Last time I drove there it was a horrible dirt road. I will try to check it out one of the next times I drive to Poland. | |
| 47996337 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-04-21 10:10:32 UTC | Tomas Straupis | restored incorrectly deleted place=village on node 3093855128http://osmhistory.appspot.com/changeset/47996337 |
| 2 | 2017-04-21 10:39:29 UTC | Jay May | Thanks. My computer crashed when I was modifying that one ... | |
| 47972121 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-04-21 07:07:59 UTC | Tomas Straupis | „(rejon wileński)“ is definitely NOT part of the NAME in any language. |
| 2 | 2017-04-21 09:47:05 UTC | Jay May | Which name are you talking about? Sometimes when you add a name in a language it automatically adds some indications like "rejon wileński" and so on. Perhaps it is somehow linked with Wikipedia? | |
| 3 | 2017-04-21 10:07:18 UTC | Tomas Straupis | I do not use iD. I just see that data had name:pl="Kiemiany (rejon wileński)"http://osmhistory.appspot.com/changeset/47972121 | |
| 4 | 2017-04-21 10:38:06 UTC | Jay May | Hmmm... Strange. Anyway, as I told you - I remember it was made automatically. Perhaps to distinguish it from the village Кемяны on the other side of the border, which is also called "Kiemiany" in Polish. Technology mysteries :D | |
| 47992384 by Jay May | 1 | 2017-04-21 07:13:19 UTC | Tomas Straupis | Please do not change local names without knowledge on how they are used. |
| 2 | 2017-04-21 09:45:37 UTC | Jay May | Hi. I live in Vilnius, I went already 3 times to Varnikai and I know people in this institution: http://www.vstt.lt/VI/index.php. The official name is Varnikų pažintinis takas and not Varnikų gamtos takas. Moreover, please have a look by yourself:http://www.15min.lt/pasaulis-kiseneje/naujiena/p... | |
| 3 | 2017-04-21 10:04:37 UTC | Tomas Straupis | OK. Changed name to „Varnikų pažintinis takas“ on all objects (ways, pois and relation). | |